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Comments on ‘'Tofu' license pits open source against meat’

JavaScript development goes to the dogs

Published Saturday 26th January 2008 01:54 GMT

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Who cares? 

By BKB
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 02:30 GMT
Alert

There are so many of these here-today-gone-tomorrow tools to choose from that I doubt this bizarre licence will affect anybody much.

hmm 

By Michael Sheils
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 02:58 GMT
Stop

In the name of equality I demand that someone makes a meat-eaters only licence.

Count me out 

By Ole Juul
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 04:00 GMT

From the EULA: "You agree you are not involved in or profit from the use of animals for entertainment..."

I keep two cats in order to control mice on our rural premises. These animals are also a source of much intertainment.

Another article that misses the mark 

By Vincent Manis
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 05:21 GMT
Thumb Down

Whatever this license might be, it most definitely isn't an open source license. The Open Source Definition has at least two clauses (no discrimination against persons or groups, and no discrimination against fields of endeavor) that are. at least according to the article, are violated. Similarly, the Four Freedoms include the right for anyone to run the software, again violated, according to the article, by this license.

I do wish the article's author had been a bit more careful about using the term `open source' for something that is nothing of the kind.

Question.. 

By Anonymous Coward
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 06:12 GMT
Black Helicopters

I am curious, but not so curious to read through all the available licensing options with my IANALButILikeToPretendIAm hat on, but if i were to get to the download section without saying I agree to the terms of use (say, for example, I was using a browser with broken JS or CSS support, such as notepad.exe, or i went straight to the download url) and I used the software in accordance with the commercial or lgpl license as documented on their website, have I actually violated anything?

Apart from the DMCA, of course. Everything violates the DMCA.

Someone beat me to it :) 

By Anonymous Coward
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 09:14 GMT

Brilliant, I was considering this as well.

Choose the groups you don't like, opensource to the rest of humantiy and hope that one of the bozos in the group you don't like just as much as sniffs your software and take them to court :)

Opensource licenses are a lot more confusing then this is free as in beer (actually I am not sure if free as in beer is that straightforward anyhow), good to see some more exclusions put into them.

I wonder if you could release a book and block who had the right to buy it - that would put a few noses out of joint.

Then along comes someone... 

By Ishkandar
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 11:10 GMT

...who'll make a similar or better product and ban all vegans from using it !! Where will this stop ??

hah 

By dave
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 11:45 GMT

So take a wild guess of how many people will ever use any of that software.

Speaking as a Vegaterian 

By Fraser
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 12:34 GMT

GROW UP!!

(I'm not sure that two exclamation marks are enough, but I don't want to tip myself over the edge into the insanity enjoyed by these miserable wannabe-hippie-dogooders.)

Not the first 

By Anonymous Coward
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 14:58 GMT
Thumb Up

There was that downloadable dictionary or whatever it was the other year where the license terms were that you were only going to take no more than four flights a year and not own a SUV.

Your license, should you accept it.... 

By David Tonhofer
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 15:04 GMT
Dead Vulture

Ok, new levels of randomness from the Internet. Whatever.

But the title of this little Reg' Article is wrong as this is not "Open Source" at all. Let's check the somewhat "papal" definition at http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd. It says:

5. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups: The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons.

And there you go.

wow. 

By yeah, right.
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 15:31 GMT

Well, it's their license, so I guess they get to say what they want.

I hope all five of them have fun using the software. Actually, looking at the restrictions in a bit more detail with a legalistic eye, I'm unsure that anyone alive in a "modern" western nation could claim to be able to follow the license restrictions to their full extent without at least some wilful hypocrisy.

But hey, whatever floats their boat.

Hippies in the Code?? 

By Joe
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 15:33 GMT
Thumb Down

I'm sorry. I really do not understand. A script that is politically correct? Suck my what?

There is no ambiguity/judgement in a script. A script does what it is told to do. F**K the hippies.

My scripts (In what ever language) EAT MEAT!!!! (then they have pudding.)

Clinching proof... 

By Anonymous Coward
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 15:37 GMT
Coat

...that developing in JEE is harmful to ones mental wellbeing.

It's also GPL'd? 

By Leo Rampen
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 15:55 GMT
Dead Vulture

If you take a look at the google code project page (http://code.google.com/p/exttld/) it says on the front page that it's released under the GPL. IANAL, and I have no idea what the GPL's position on this is, but can you apply extra conditions to a piece of code (like they have done) and still claim that it is under the GPL? Obviously their copyright, their rules, but one would think that by licensing something under the GPL, you lose the right to dictate who can and can't use your software.

It is pointless... 

By GettinSadda
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 16:38 GMT
Thumb Down

The code is covered by GPLv3.

Section 8 of GPLv3 includes the following:

"All other non-permissive additional terms* are considered “further restrictions” within the meaning of section 10. If the Program as you received it, or any part of it, contains a notice stating that it is governed by this License along with a term that is a further restriction, you may remove that term."

* It lists some very specific additions you may make.

Section 10 of GPLv3 includes:

"You may not impose any further restrictions on the exercise of the rights granted or affirmed under this License."

Restrictions only apply to downloading? 

By sas
Posted Saturday 26th January 2008 17:55 GMT
Gates Horns

"By downloading ExtTLD from this website, you agree to the following terms and conditions."

Which suggests the additional terms only apply to whoever downloads the code from that site- they're the copyright holders so they're allowed to do this. However, since the actual code is LGPL once it's been given to someone they're free to distribute it without the additional restrictions.

@Vincent Manis 

By Sean Baggaley
Posted Sunday 27th January 2008 00:24 GMT

The article doesn't say "Open Source" (note the capitalizations). The article uses lower-case references to "open source" throughout.

Contrary to increasingly popular belief, Stallman & Co. did _NOT_ invent the concept of opening up the source code to one's applications. I regret to inform you that "Open Source" is not a f*cking registered trademark.

This isn't new. 

By Robert Brockway
Posted Sunday 27th January 2008 04:21 GMT
Paris Hilton

This isn't at all new. Around 1994 I encountered a package which granted a free licence to anyone except for members of the Nevada state legislature and their immediate family members for whom a $50000 licence fee was payable.

Reading between the lines the author was a university student resident in Nevada who didn't at all like the state education policies.

PH because I think she went to Nevada once.

Where is this in their licences? 

By daniel
Posted Sunday 27th January 2008 13:55 GMT
Dead Vulture

Their licence page at http://extjs.com/license shows 2 licenencing methods:

Open licence (GPL v3 - actually pointing to LGPL) at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.html

Commercial licence at http://extjs.com/ext-commercial-software-license

I cannot see in the commercial licence anything pertaining to this article... and of course, nothing in the LGPL licence either...

@Sean Baggaley 

By Mr ChriZ
Posted Sunday 27th January 2008 16:18 GMT

Totally with you on this one.

@Sean Baggaley 

By Vincent Manis
Posted Sunday 27th January 2008 16:22 GMT

1. The Open Source Definition is not the work of Richard Stallman or the FSF, who overall does not like the phrase.

2. The non-discrimination clauses I quoted come from the Open Source Definition, which is published by the Open Source Initiative.

3. When Microsoft developed licenses that they considered to be open-source (note lower case), they submitted them to the OSI for approval.

4. The Wikipedia article on open source cites a reference ([6]) from 1990 that shows the term to be used to signify `materials open to the public and freely available' [my wording] and opposed implicitly to `controlled'.

5. I hope Sean would not consider a library to be public if it refused admittance to meat eaters, vegetarians, or any other group.

For the record, I have been using open-source software since about 1970, back when user groups such as SHARE (IBM) and DECUS (DEC) used to distribute it. The GNU Manifesto clearly says that RMS wanted to re-create the environment he'd experienced at the MIT AI Lab, so he can hardly have claimed to invented the concept.

Oh, dear, you've got to laugh sometimes, 

By Andrew Wigglesworth
Posted Sunday 27th January 2008 18:02 GMT

"The article doesn't say "Open Source" (note the capitalizations). The article uses lower-case references to "open source" throughout.

Contrary to increasingly popular belief, Stallman & Co. did _NOT_ invent the concept of opening up the source code to one's applications. I regret to inform you that "Open Source" is not a f*cking registered trademark"

<sarcasm> You really don't know what you're talking about do you?</sarcasm>

Seen it before 

By Gareth Holmes
Posted Sunday 27th January 2008 18:16 GMT
Gates Horns

This license will go the same way as that weird clause on Zynaddsubfx (A fine and free synth).

The clause was something like "Please don't use this program to make music that is against God and Jesus Christ".

Thankfully that weird request appears to have disappeared in the latest incarnation of Zynaddsubfx.

(Bill-Z-bub for relevance)

No animal products eh? 

By Mr Fuzzy
Posted Sunday 27th January 2008 23:05 GMT

That's organic farmers using manure as fertilizer right out then. Rabid hippie in chemical farming shocker!

It goes to show: 

By Oliver Jones
Posted Monday 28th January 2008 10:43 GMT
Happy

Java is the new Pascal.

Even 20 years ago, Pascal programmers were all known as quiche-eaters. But this is the icing on the cake. :)

Oliver.

Inane nonsence 

By Whitter
Posted Monday 28th January 2008 10:51 GMT
Alien

As we are animals ourselves, software code is itself an animal product. So nobody can use it...

who cares? Did you watch the video?? 

By hobo
Posted Monday 28th January 2008 12:10 GMT

who cares? Did you watch the video??

TfL et al 

By Bruno Girin
Posted Monday 28th January 2008 16:21 GMT
Joke

"Also out is participation in animal-based sports, such as rodeo riding, and transport of animals."

So does this mean Transport for London, UK train companies and airlines can't use it until they abolish cattle class on all services?*

*The word "service" is used loosely here. No I'm not bitter about ****ing engineering works finishing late this morning, I already notified LUL of their farcical use of the word "service".

Answer... 

By Ed
Posted Monday 28th January 2008 17:59 GMT
Boffin

IANALBILTPIA also. Imagine that. Anyway, assuming that you did not agree to the terms of their license, you would be violating copyright. However, since it is apparent that they've actually distributed it under a GPL, and merely added those terms and conditions to the front, rather than distributing it under a modified GPL, no, you would only be violating the DMCA.

Oh, and at least one other poster might be interested to know that a trademark need not be registered, and given the recent usage of the term, 'Open Source' would almost certainly qualify for being an unregistered trademark, if it were unregistered. Now, I wouldn't be willing to bet that the term is, in fact, unregistered, also given recent usage of the term.

Now, one bit of confusion I do have, as IANAJ, and most specifically, IANTJThatThisCaseWouldGoToIfItWereTakenToTrial, and, of course, said trial hasn't happened yet, is does the fact that the author of the code is attempting to add terms to the GPL modify the effect of the attempt? If that detail doesn't modify the attempt, then, as someone said above, the additional restrictions simply fall off. If it doesn't, then, well, as someone else above mentioned, none of us use it, because humans are animals, and we therefore all produce various animal products - whether software, cars, noxious gasses, or other...

Are birds and fish exempt? 

By Morely Dotes
Posted Monday 28th January 2008 21:18 GMT
Dead Vulture

Or does the author consider them animals?

Not that it matters. What sane developer uses Java these days?

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